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Federal regulators are threatening to crack down on for-profit schools that are eager to take students' cash, but aren't necessarily coming through with lucrative paying gigs upon graduation. Those for-profit schools include a number of culinary schools around the country that are increasingly taking the heat. Several are embroiled in actual lawsuits.
According to Politico, the Department of Education is expected to set what many call "gainful employment" rules as early as this month. That move could severely limit the ability of for-profit schools to access federally-backed student loans. That means cooking schools like Le Cordon Bleu, Art Institute of Houston, Western Culinary Institute and dozens more, might be facing their own elimination challenge as they face increasing pressure to prove their students are able to secure jobs upon graduation, and have the ability to pay back student loans that can quickly reach $50,000.
Attorney Michael Louis Kelly, who is suing Career Education Corp. (the parent company of Le Cordon Bleu) on behalf of California students, told NPR that the school made unrealistic promises.
"The model doesn't work," Kelly told NPR. "You can't got to school, accumulate $30-, $40- or $50,000 in debt and then go into an industry where you're going to have to start out at $8 or $12 an hour."
"Top Chef" contestant Tiffany Derry threw her whisk into the fight. In an essay for The Hill, she argues that the proposed changes will adversely affect minority and low-income students.
"The proposed regulation is going to hurt students who need help the most: students who are considered at-risk, minority and low-income or older students who may be raising a family by themselves. The rule erroneously points to debt-to-income ratios and repayment rates as measure to determine whether or not students who attend a program are eligible to receive financial assistance," she writes.
The "Top Chef" star also happens to be a graduate of the for-profit Art Institute of Houston, and returned to teach there, according to the Dallas Observer.
Campus Progress writer Kay Steiger challenges Derry's position and says that an important part of the argument is the loan pay-back rate.
"According to the Department of Education, the Art Institute of Houston's federal loan repayment rate is 37 percent -- not enough to instantly disqualify it from receiving federal student aid, but low enough to put the school in the 'restricted' category if its debt-to-income ratio is also bad," writes Steiger.
What do you think? Has tuition at culinary schools reached a boiling point? Share your thoughts in our comments section.
Read about the nation's first full-time high school culinary program at The Huffington Post.
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3-18-2011 @9:41AM Mark Hadley said... When I attended Le Cordon Bleu in Pasadena I was promised a $60K salary when I graduated. I applied for a loan but was never told I was approved. Never signed any loan documents either but, I was nailed with a high interest loan anyway. After graduation I found that there was nothing available that I could raise my family on so I ended up staying in the profession I was already in. I never worked as a chef and am still stuck with the loan. All because a recruiter from the school made promises that were impossible to keep. Very expensive lesson.
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3-18-2011 @7:18AM OHSue said... I used to teach at a for profit school in another field. The students were totally misled on potential pay & job opportunities, The admissions test was a 40 question reading test with a required score of 20 for entry. Admissions officers were paid incentives based on admissions. It was later learned that some students were coached or got a 're-do' on the test. These students were set to fail from the start. The text books were geared towards a sixth grade reading level. The job counselor used to read the want ads every morning to help students find jobs that had no licensure requirements. Don't recall the cost of all this, but do remember being stunned that folks paid that much to learn what they could have gotten with on the job training.
Not sorry to say I only lasted a year before I moved on from this job, but if you want a well paying job get a job teaching at one of these schools. Pay was good, but the guilt was incredible.
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3-18-2011 @7:38AM D Hamilton said... Our son graduated from the CIA, and upon graduation started to look for a job. He went to a place that had a reputation as fine dining establishment, and was told by the chef,
"Why should I hire you at $15.00 an hour, when I can hire three illegals for the same money." It took a while for him to find work, and the CIA offered no help in helping him find work. Of course they promised him all the support he needed in finding work, but failed to produce one viable lead.
He's working in a fine job in Vegas at the moment, no thanks to the school that was happy to take over 40K in tuition.
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3-20-2011 @12:55PM D Kaminske said... Is it really fair to just pick on culinary schools? What about the rest of the world such as airline pilot pilot universities? Business marketing? What really is the cost of an education anywhere today public or private? And how many years does it take to pay off $50000 to $100000 in any profession? The education has a value to it whether you work in the field you studied or not. My daughter is in culinary & has attended both private & public schools in her training. She has many options of employment upon graduation in her "field" not just "chef". Sometimes you have to take the job that pays until you get the experience or opportunity to do what you are best trained to do. Please stop the government from trying to interfere, sue & run the world. If anything is going to be addressed, how about the length of time college or career universities take to put out a product. Four years is more than enough for many fields that could take just 2, decreasing student debt.
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3-19-2011 @1:03AM DNB said... Tiffany Derry's comment is pure bunk. I want to culinary school and most of the students were middle class kids, a couple of mid life career changers and some veterans.
The fact is that there is now a glut of cooks out there keeping the wages down. This action is long over due.
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3-18-2011 @10:09PM Joanne said... The way I see it, the main problems here are first, the pressure our society puts on everyone that getting a college degree is the only way to be successful in life. Second is the assumption that once this degree is attained a good paying job will follow. The bottom line is a college degree MAY make attaining a job easier and MAY provide the opportunity for higher wages, but it is not a given. . For every financially successful person I know with a college degree I know an equal number of people without degrees who are just as, if not more, financially successful. I also know many who went to college and are now doing nothing. Hard work, a good attitude, perserverance, patience, and an accumulation of experience are guarantees to success, not a degree by itself.
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3-18-2011 @10:52PM LunchboxMooMoo said... I graduated from the art institute-seattle in '98 with a degree in baking and pastry, which i love, and am currently getting my BA from AI-tucson. my only regret is 1) leaving seattle (i had to because the weather gets me down i came back home to tucson) and 2) leaving a really good job in cali to come home yet again. the first tiem around my chef set up the school in seattle- i was part of the second group of 15 to graduate, 5 the previous Q- who had also run CIA hyde park. he specifically set up the program where we spent 4 days a week, 7 hrs a day, 11 consectutive days in ONE class, 4 classes a Quarter, on purpose so we could learn as much as possible and fully immerse ourselves in the culinary arts. we spent 9mos learning the basics before we were able to choose a speciality. and then i spent 9mos learning baking and pastry from a very talented austrian. i dont regret that at all. i would certainly tell people not to go to school as it costs way too much now and they only spend 4hrs a week in one class for 11 weeks. i'm really saddened by how far the art institutes have changed. i learned butchery and basic soup, stocks, and sauces and now they arent even classes! i fight every day with the staff outside of the culinary dept, as well as the FA dept as they cant seem to keep anything in order. i'm happy that ONE of my classmates got accepted into CIA, and is making a go for himself, but thats VERY RARE. if one can get on as an apprentice, i highly suggest that route only to save your money. i wouldnt give up my expierences in seattle, but if i had to do it again, i would stick to my origional major of music/video business. or photography. i cant say i'm learning anything really in the bachelors program, either. shame on you art institutes.
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3-18-2011 @11:15PM LeCordonFcuk said... The culinary industry existed long before the art institue or our hopelessly americanized Le Cordon Bleu. You want to be a chef? Wash dishes, clean, polish, scrub for a year and hope a prep cook shows up too drunk to work. Jump in. Do it again with pantry. Do it again, and again. It's not easy but you won't spend 40K for a nice white outfit and a tall hat. Good luck
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3-18-2011 @11:17PM fritanga said... In France cooks learn the hard, real way: they apprentice into restaurants starting at the lowest rung in the kitchen, usually as a prep cook. In US cities in the late '80s and '90s it was still possible to get a restaurant kitchen job the same way, and that's how one became a chef - working your way though the ranks. That's how I became a pastry chef and ended up making a good, if modest living.
The problem is too many people watch food television and think they all can be famous chefs if they invest in culinary school. Actually, their time would be better spent doing apprenticeships in good restaurants or using loans to start their own catering companies or cafes.
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3-19-2011 @1:05AM mlaiuppa said... You don't have to go to a for profit culinary school to learn the industry. Community colleges and state colleges have degrees in culinary arts too. They're accredited and students would qualify for government student loans.
As for the rest, the Republicans would destroy public education and make all schools for profit privatized. Considering the problems stated above, is this really the direction this country wants to go?
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3-20-2011 @1:22PM julibelle55 said... It is a good day when the government casts a bright light on this proprietary education business. I taught at a school that was independent, subsequently purchased by CEC and then Cordon Bleu. It was shocking to me to see how agressive the 'counselors' became, encouraging individuals who were so seriously impaired or unqualified physically, intellectually or emotionally to enroll and take on the astounding debt. As a career chef it was patently obvious to me that the great majority of my students would never get to their second culinary job let alone be able to repay their loans with restaurant wages. As an instructor I was compelled on a number of occasions to pass students who were criminals, illiterate, physically challenged ( an really lovely man who happened to weigh 350+ pounds and stood exactly 5 feet tall, ) a young woman who was legally blind even w her glasses and more than one, ineffectively medicated, mentally bi polar patient. It was shocking and so distressing. I left after 3 years, one semester into the Cordon Bleu era. I hope the government puts a tight hold on these practices, this is a dishonest business and it preys on the most vulnerable, the most hopeful, the neediest.
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3-19-2011 @10:11AM Mike_D said... I also feel the beauty school industry follows the same failed model of school and loans. It may not be as much $$ as $50k, but I know my gf is struggling to pay back the 10k loan at $7 hr min wage job she got at one of the best salons here. Now she took a temp job for more $$ and does salon work at home
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3-19-2011 @10:24AM Paula said... I graduated with honors from The Institute of Culinary Education in New York City in 1999. During the course of my "education" there, my classmates and I continually asked what we could expect once we graduated and were never given a clear answer. When I enrolled, I was very specific about the type of work I wanted. I did not want to work in a restaurant. Since my undergraduate work was in English and I love to write, I wanted to work for a culinary magazine.
Upon completion of the program, I was coerced into working in a restaurant kitchen, which was a miserable experience for me. Being a woman, and being older than most of the people I was working with made the experience very unpleasant and often demeaning. I finally got another externship at Country Living Magazine. I was hired as a long term freelancer upon completion of the externship.
Because there are very, very few on-staff positions for test kitchen people, no benefits, no job security, no decent wages, I was forced to give up and go back to my previous career. I do sometimes teach cooking classes now, but that's certainly a labor of love more than a lucrative endeavor.
I think I was deceived into thinking I could pursue a career that basically did not exist. After spending all that money, I was told that the type of job I was looking for can only be obtained if one is 'connected' in the industry. Had I been told that to begin with, I would have saved my money and time. I do not think one person in my class wound up actually pursuing a culinary career because after incurring all the debt they had, they could not continue to work for free until someone decided to throw them a few crumbs of pay to get an entry level job.
I think the schools benefit by exorbitant tuitions, the restaurant industry benefits, because they get free labor from the externs, but the poor students who hope for a better life doing something they think they love, are just pawns in the game.
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3-23-2011 @5:37PM sassmarie said... I went to a community college that has a culinary degree program. Absolutly loved it and will return to take some pastry classes just for fun! It's very affordable and I heard about it the very day I was to register for classes at the Art Institute. I am older as well and after working in an internship at a five star restaurant, decided I would be happier teaching culinary classes in highschool. Most of my classmates that are older decided to pursue other jobs or returned to their previous career fields because of the pay scale. The younger ones that were in my classes are still working their way up in the kitchen, but they are so young with no family commitments they can. More power to them! Its not like the food network portrays being a chef! Long days on your feet, hot kitchens, weekends, nights, holidays! Not a career for family the minded or the faint of heart!
3-19-2011 @1:49PM concern mom said... I have been arguing with my 18 yr old daughter for weeks. She wants to attend a culinary school in Chicago,Il. The admisson lady (Elizabeth) promised my daughter that ahe wld get a job.There are lots a loans and grants that will help her pay. I went with my daughter and within 20minutes found it would be $20,000.00 for 12 classes and three 11 week semesters.
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3-19-2011 @7:34PM grubdude said... God. I hate my life. Now I am just thinking about all of this. I might as well go into a sugar coma.
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3-21-2011 @4:32AM Patti O. said... You don't need a degree to work in the field. Why would you go into debt again? Oh yes, because you've never worked in the field. Go to work in a kitchen first, PLEASE, for your sake and mine. You don't pop out of culinary school ready to be a chef. You are barely capable of being a dishwasher at that point. It's hard work, long hours, psychodrama, low pay... and I love it. You'd better too. I've done school, I've worked in kitchens for 20 years. I quit school because it was a waste of my time and money. I currently work for a James Beard recipient and have worked for three others. THAT'S how you learn. Go wash dishes and work your way up. At least you'll be getting paid rather than going into debt and you'll earn some solid work ethic, too.
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3-24-2011 @8:32AM Meathead said... I taught at a famous culinary school for 3 years. They had a large staff of salespeople who had quotas and were paid bonuses for new registrations. But the dead giveaway is their website. It is NOTHING like the website of a real academic institution. It is all sales pitch and works hard to get your phone number and email. Smart people should be able to sniff out their motives. Problems is they don't seek smart people! They seek money.
That said, the faculty was excellent, and those students who were serious about careers got good jobs and advanced quickly. The rest, I fear, got locked into low wage line jobs and will be paying their loans for many years.
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3-21-2011 @7:05PM MBL said... Formal education has advantages and disadvantages (and a hefty price tag in some cases.) However, most everyone starts out in the same place in a kitchen, especially at the high-end restaurnants. Right at the bottom. I would suggest that people get some experience before going to school. Mainly because the restaurant industry is not for everyone. If you like it, keep going. If not, no worries. Learn the basics, and as was mentioned before by another commenter, move to the next place. Then school or not. Depends on what your goals are.
One of the biggest advantages is that some companies require a degree of some sort to progress to the upper managment levels.
There are some online resources that are popping up, too. www.brigadechef.com is one. Pick up a kit and go stage (short apprenticeship) at a restaurant.
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3-22-2011 @4:14PM Jack S. Buchanan, II CIA '90 said... I can't believe you people complaining. You sound like if you go to one of these schools, that upon graduation that you will walk into a high paying job. It doesn't work that way, never has, and never will. Culinary schools only purpose is to provide you the basics. What you do from that point on is entirely up to the individual. You have to get out there, sell yourself, prove yourself.....etc. There is no career on this God's green earth where you start out at the top. I graduated from the Culinary Institute of America in June of '90. Hard work and dedication got me CEC and induction into the Chaine des Rotisseurs. In this industry, one must prove themselves everyday. Nothing, absolutely nothing is handed to you. I am not purposely going to dis these 'for-profit' schools. But honestly, if you were going to hire a staff and presented with resumes for Joe Blow's Culinary School and the CIA, which one would you hire ? Enough said !!!
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