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Federal regulators are threatening to crack down on for-profit schools that are eager to take students' cash, but aren't necessarily coming through with lucrative paying gigs upon graduation. Those for-profit schools include a number of culinary schools around the country that are increasingly taking the heat. Several are embroiled in actual lawsuits.
According to Politico, the Department of Education is expected to set what many call "gainful employment" rules as early as this month. That move could severely limit the ability of for-profit schools to access federally-backed student loans. That means cooking schools like Le Cordon Bleu, Art Institute of Houston, Western Culinary Institute and dozens more, might be facing their own elimination challenge as they face increasing pressure to prove their students are able to secure jobs upon graduation, and have the ability to pay back student loans that can quickly reach $50,000.
Attorney Michael Louis Kelly, who is suing Career Education Corp. (the parent company of Le Cordon Bleu) on behalf of California students, told NPR that the school made unrealistic promises.
"The model doesn't work," Kelly told NPR. "You can't got to school, accumulate $30-, $40- or $50,000 in debt and then go into an industry where you're going to have to start out at $8 or $12 an hour."
"Top Chef" contestant Tiffany Derry threw her whisk into the fight. In an essay for The Hill, she argues that the proposed changes will adversely affect minority and low-income students.
"The proposed regulation is going to hurt students who need help the most: students who are considered at-risk, minority and low-income or older students who may be raising a family by themselves. The rule erroneously points to debt-to-income ratios and repayment rates as measure to determine whether or not students who attend a program are eligible to receive financial assistance," she writes.
The "Top Chef" star also happens to be a graduate of the for-profit Art Institute of Houston, and returned to teach there, according to the Dallas Observer.
Campus Progress writer Kay Steiger challenges Derry's position and says that an important part of the argument is the loan pay-back rate.
"According to the Department of Education, the Art Institute of Houston's federal loan repayment rate is 37 percent -- not enough to instantly disqualify it from receiving federal student aid, but low enough to put the school in the 'restricted' category if its debt-to-income ratio is also bad," writes Steiger.
What do you think? Has tuition at culinary schools reached a boiling point? Share your thoughts in our comments section.
Read about the nation's first full-time high school culinary program at The Huffington Post.
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3-17-2011 @1:13PM charlieangel said... 1) Odd that you'd seperate Western Culinary Institute from Le Cordon Bleu as it is a Le Cordon Bleu School.
2) As a former Western Culinary Institute drop-out, a significant part of the decision was to prevent myself from going any deeper into student loan debt after I really got a view of what the "real world" wages were. $9/hour to pay off $40k+? Most of which are private, unsubsidized, and more importantly, non-dischargeable debt with ~13-16% interest rates, unlike the subsidized Federal loans at 3%.
Currently, 25% of my takehome pay is directly to my student loans and will be for the next 12-15 years. Think about that, kids, before you sign that dotted line. And I'm not even working in the industry, I went back to technology. The pay is better. I couldn't imagine trying to pay back loans on $9/hour.
I don't regret my culinary school experience. I learned quite a bit. However I didn't stop to think about the bottom line or truly read the fine print. At the very least, I'd like to have seen something that the credit card companies do now: Shown me an estimated monthly payment and amount of time to pay the debt down. Had someone shown me that I was going to be on the hook for $400-500/month for the next 12 years of my life, against realistic wages in the industry, I might have made a different decision.
My advice to kids thinking about culinary school: Wait. Get a job in the industry. learn everything you can. Move to a better kitchen. Learn everything you can. Move to a better kitchen. Learn everything you can. After 10-12 years of this, you'll not only be extremely prepared for school, but you'll also have realistic expectations about what you can and can't do in the real world. Everyone wants to have the "hot spot" and spend their days creating culinary delights that are the talk of the town, when the truth of the matter is you'll most likely end up working at some Casino Buffet. It's not for everyone.
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3-17-2011 @11:32PM Bill Acree said... Your comments were spot on. I would agree with working in the field at 10years before going to school and for the exact same reasons as you stated. I graduated from a small private school who was bought out by Le Cordon Bleu and in a couple of years these grads started to show up in places around town and the were ill trained and some of them down right lazy. What happend is the schools flooded the market and these grads and they come very cheap. Sad really. I started at 14, 65 now and and I still do a few things a years just to keep the blood flowing.
3-18-2011 @6:05AM Al Schrader said... The real restaurant world is totally different from what is taught at those Le Perrier schools, though they appear nice. A good restaurant is a hectic very fast paced environment. Most of the skills taught in the culinary schools are nearly useless in the real world. For example, you have to be able to peel a carrot in 5 seconds or less, or decorate a dessert in 8 seconds, or make a salad with garnish in 12 seconds. I'm considering offer a weekend class offering real world skills, but finding the time is still an issue....Alfred-
3-19-2011 @3:09PM John Kulikowski said... Add to that, working every holiday; Christmas, New Year's Mother's day, etc. Never being free on a Saturday night and working most evenings. If you have children, you will never see them. It's modern day Serfdom.
3-19-2011 @3:09PM John Kulikowski said... Add to that, working every holiday; Christmas, New Year's Mother's day, etc. Never being free on a Saturday night and working most evenings. If you have children, you will never see them. It's modern day Serfdom.
3-19-2011 @7:05PM Joe Lussier said... and by working in the industry for a number of years working your way up not only could have saved a large portion of your tuition but with real world experience you will not enter at the bottem as a chef one of the thing I hate is these young people entering culinary school cause it looks cool and they will be the next Bobby Flay. Alot of them when they get out are totaly unprepared for how hard life in the kitchen really is
3-17-2011 @3:18PM domynoe said... Following this model, teachers wouldn't get loans and whatnot either because they get paid crap. It's ridiculous to expect any job to pay more than $12/hour based on a college education. Just isn't going to happen, especially not int he current economic climate.
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3-17-2011 @8:23PM Angela said... I graduated Culinary school magna cum laude in 2001 and had a consistently high GPA, but none
of that translates to the real world where you actually are guaranteed a high paying job in order to
pay for your student loans. I returned to restaurant employment at the highest pay at 10.00 an hour.
Needless to say I had to find other "gainful employment" not in the restaurant business because I
got frustrated with the whole thing.
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3-17-2011 @8:43PM Tattingranny said... As a culinary school graduate...I have to agree that the for profit schools are way out of site. I was unable to obtain a position that would have enabled me to repay one of those outrageous loans. There just aren't that many jobs out there that will pay and the culinary schools really exagerate the possibilities. In the Los Angeles area there are too many immigrants who are williing to work for minimum wage for there to be any chance for the new graduates to get experience that will garner them a "living" wage.
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3-17-2011 @8:30PM Anne said... Its about time that someone regulates these loan programs. It is absolutely ridiculous that a young person would accumulate 30 to 50 K in debt, when the average hourly wage will only be in the $9 to $12 range. This is intentional misrepresentation of a "product".............and a luxury product as well. Witness the number of failed restaurants in the current recession.
In contrast, people who get their college education for teachers positions, nursing positions, dental, medical etc, right away start with much higher salaries and benefits, with significant growth potential. And if they want to work in underserved areas, or in some cases, the military, they can eliminate much of their debt. Even they can get saddled with significant debt, their prospects are much better.
Its not just the culinary schools that are guilty, but its a good start to reform the system.
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3-17-2011 @9:32PM Jessica said... This is very discouraging for someone who enrolled in Le Cordon Bleu's baking program. It's hard to look at taking on that much in student loans when the outcome will be a $10/hr job...Something I could obtain with most jobs that don't require a college education, therefore omitting the student loans and payments. It's hard to decide whether doing something you really love is worth taking on that kind of financial strain. It leaves me in a serious dilhema trying to decide what to do before my classes start... I don't want to get myself into something I will regret in the future, especially not with something like loans. Will it be worth it???
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3-17-2011 @11:34PM Allison said... JESSICA:
No, the program is NOT worth enrolling in. No culinary school is worth it. Save your money.
Go to a local bakery, bake shop, or large hotel and apply for a baker's position. Get to know the head baker and have her/him mentor you. They will teach you everything you need to know and you get paid to learn. Be hungry to learn, do everything you're told to do, and ask questions as you go. Take notes, practice what you've learned at home.
My other advice to you: take care of your body (plenty of sleep, drink lots of water, get some sunlight at least 30 minutes a day, take care of your knees and back especially). It's the best tool you have.
Good luck!
3-18-2011 @12:03AM Maureen said... My daughter just graduated from the California Culinary Institute in San Francisco (le Cordon Bleu) in the baking classes. Her extern ship brought her to a restaurant that hired her IMMEDIATELY after her extern ship was done. She has since gotten a raise and is now making as much as I did when I retired. Sure, her loans are daunting, but she is doing what she has passion for and she loves what her life has become after her experience at CCI. PLEASE don't allow this article to keep you from doing what you love. She enjoyed her time at the school and I, as a parent, am grateful for the education they gave her. GO! You'll be better for it!
3-19-2011 @2:16PM Robyn said... As a graduate of AIH, I can tell you that many of your local community colleges offer the same type of thing leaving the amount owed considerably lower. You get what you put into it. The instructors at a CC will be more than happy to teach you everything if you are interested in learning. The for profit culinary schools are interested in one thing and one thing only, the money. They accept anyone and graduate everyone that doesn't drop out on their own. The market is diluted with untalented individuals that think they are a chef the moment they walk out the door, not realizing (or in some cases caring) that chef is a title bestowed upon one when they can prove themselves. Continue going to school, but move to one of the community colleges. It will help prepare you for more than being a line doggie.
3-17-2011 @8:51PM Stanley T. Neblett said... Yes indeed, the world of Culinary Arts is on longer a means to an end these day! I left Culinary School over ten years ago and still finding it hard to by.The reason I feel is that people feel that they
can get anybody from the street and train them to cook.By doing this, they can afford little or nothing.
This is not right, give a man what he deserve and that would set a standard!
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3-18-2011 @8:45AM Travelcheferic said... I am a Chef who currently resides in Manama ,Bahrain.I attended Le Cordon Bleu Scottsdale in 06'
It has taken 6 years and a lot of hard work to get where i am.I would not change anything about my experiences thus far.I graduated Magna Cum Laude that was my goal going in to leave my school with honors and a degree.I have accumulated said student loans.I have paid my dues and done what it takes to survive in this economy.Private unsubsidized loans i have those as well and they do have a stupid high interest rate.I was told from the get go that it was a lot of money and i would be responsible for paying it back.I believe the target audience here are young people and teens who think that they are going to be the next big celebrity chef and garner some huge payday if they get on T.V. however only a small percentage become that successful.That is because if you research it they were vigilant and passionate and had a drive to be the best at what they do. That is why they are what they are.I consider myself an excellent Chef and that is because i have a passion for what i do and am a creative thinker.Being a Chef is not for everyone.You need to figure that out before you dive into school. Once you make that choice live with it. On a side note i am 45 yrs. old i chose to change careers and become a Chef leaving retail after 6 yrs. I live in a different country now because that is what it has called for to further my career.Do i regret it? or feel sorry for myself ? No! Salli Mae will get back their money soon enough.Is the system broken? Yes.It needs to be looked at .Execs at these institutions are greedy and want more.They pray on young people.Parents beware look into it before you decide where to spend your hard earned money. Make sure it is what your child is qualified to do.I believe that you need to have some experience in the industry before you can apply to these schools.Bottom line if you want success in this industry than you need to figure out how to get there.Work hard and press on it will happen. You just need to believe in yourself.
3-17-2011 @9:04PM GearheadGourmet said... I work as a personal chef and I am continually meeting people, young and old, who, upon learning about my occupation, invariably express their desire to go to culinary school. They're usually a little confused when I advise them to avoid it like the plague, and earn a real degree instead. I have made it one of my missions in life to steer as many away from these schools as I can.
One of the biggest problems is the lack of selective admission to for-profit schools. I have witnessed students who can barely read at an elementary school level allowed to graduate. These same individuals lacked basic math skills as well, rendering them unable scale recipes, read an invoice, or interpret a P&L sheet.
Yet they were all handed their diplomas, because they were at least able to sign the loan documents, and that's all that mattered to the school administrators.
I've been in the industry 6 years now, and still owe over $40k, and I know I cant pay it off for another 20 years. But, I'm living comfortably and doing well in a job that most of my peers could only dream of. The sad fact is I got lucky, and managed to place myself in the right time and the right place for opportunity. However I know of too many talented classmates who still struggle to obtain a respectable salary.
Success after graduation from any of these culinary schools is not guaranteed. Actually it is the exception to the rule.
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3-18-2011 @12:59AM Marne said... The reason this profession is glutted with "those that can barely sign their names" is not everyone is a "book person". Many people are extremently sucessful doing "hands on" work. Ask a rocket scientist to produce a souffle and his field of expertise just won't apply. I won't ask a chef to lay a brick patio at my house. It all depends upon how we're "wired" and at which skills we're sucessful.
3-17-2011 @9:09PM Luis Rivera said... Not for nothing, but, who in there right mind would go and spend $40k + for a 23-26 week course. Thats outrageous and unacceptable. I have been in the industry for many years and have learned from some of the best chefs out there and they never sat down in a classroom. Lets face it people, if you can get your foot in the door and learn what you can from one kitchen, then take that and go to another one and learn even more from that one and so on and so on, DO IT!! Don't give your money to these schools that make empty promises and never follow through with their mission statement.
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3-17-2011 @9:41PM Leonard said... I believe that the culinary schools are overpriced. Moreover, they do not teach certain necessary skills like knife skills or recipe conversions adequately, which are what most employers ask me about. I have been to a culinary school. I tried to get jobs all over. I only got dish washing jobs. No chef accepted me for a job. There is lots of discrimination in field if you are not a minority. Employers stereotype you before you are hired. If you do get hired, you get paid $8-15/hr based on my experience. I never made enough to pay back any federal loan. So going to a culinary school does not provide you with earning power, not enough to support a family. The value of a culinary education does not justify the cost. Culinary schools are just a business advertising to make money off students who will accumulate debt they will not be able to repay readily.
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