Starbucks is feeling the burn...and doesn't want you to smell it

3-19-2008 @6:43PM noza said... I'm glad to see Starbucks "getting back to their roots." I used to love Starbucks back in the mid 90's, when it first started spreading from the Northwest. The baristas actually seemed to know what they were doing (no fully-automatic machines then), the place smelled great, prices were (somewhat) reasonable.

Now when I think of Starbucks I think the little stand in the grocery store and every airport, that charges way too much and no longer differentiates themselves in any way.

I really do hope that Schultz can pull off a Steve Jobs-esque miracle to return to the company's original vision.
Reply

3-19-2008 @11:19PM jennifer said... Why must everyone perpetuate the stupid myth that a cup of coffee is $4...the largest cup of coffee you can get there is like $2...it is only when you get a latte/cappuccino that the prices get up to $4. Cups of coffee at McDonalds, Duncan Donuts...even the local gas station run close to $2 for a large. I have no dog in this battle, so I'm not being defensive because I work there or anything...I'm just tired of hearing people whine about how much "coffee" costs at Starbucks!
Reply

3-20-2008 @12:53AM badfrog said... Fresh ground is much less important than fresh ROASTED. Roasted coffee is stale after ten or twelve days, no matter what kind of storage is used.

Also Charbucks uses that nasty Italian roast, suitable only for espresso. When they go to a fresh Full or half City roast, they'll get my business; until then they'll need to go on disguising the malevolent staleness of their product with extra cream, flavorings, syrups, sugar, and the broken hearts of coffee lovers around the world.
Reply

3-20-2008 @4:22AM Joe B said... Jennifer, I've been saying the same thing to friends for ages now. I usually just brew my own coffee at home, but if I'm out and about I have no problem stopping by Starbucks to pick up a cup. Most places, a tall cup (do you really need more?) is about $1.50 and if I'm feeling the need for a little extra pep I might spring for an Americano, is only slightly more than regular drip coffee.
Reply

3-20-2008 @9:30AM jennifer said... Thanks Joe.

And I just realized it is Dunkin' Donuts...don't even get me started about how I feel about "alternative" spellings of words. ;-)
Reply

3-20-2008 @3:18PM drstrangegun said... So instead of popping open a bag of grounds that were scorched and ground in a factory a couple weeks ago, they'll be grinding grounds from beans scorched in a factory a couple weeks ago?
Reply

3-20-2008 @4:09PM Astin said... Considering that as long as I've known Starbucks (they didn't come to Canada until the late 90's early 00's), they've served burnt, terrible, undrinkable swill that they pass off as coffee, this is slightly welcome news. Every few years I try again, and always end up dumping my cup in the garbage before I'm out the door.

"Flavour-locked" is crap. Ground coffee is stale within hours of being ground, regardless of the packaging. Considering it's usually sitting out in the open air for days before being packaged certainly doesn't help. Roasted beans actually go stale within about 5 days. Nothing like rancid coffee oils.

So once Starbucks gets around to fresh roasted (I'll even accept delivered within a day or two of roasting) beans and ground throughout the day (and not just pre-open), it'll actually be serving a decent cup. No, wait.. they'll probably still burn the crap out of the beans and let the brewed coffee sit around for an hour or more, rendering any other efforts useless.

I imagine their water temperature is too low as well, if their "home roaster" is any indication. It's the easiest way to hide the bitterness of stale, poorly-sourced, over-roasted, cheapest-available grounds.

And maybe they can drop idiotic blend names like "Yukon". There isn't a single coffee plant in the Yukon. Why not actually give us a bean source and diversify beyond the cheapest possible piss-poor bean? Bring us some Sulawesi, some Yemeni, Harar, Papua New Guinea... actually use your power and reach to educate people about what GOOD coffee is, and share some of your wealth with the farmers who work hard to bring you it.

Yes, I roast and grind my own, and drink it black and unsweetened. But I couldn't stand Starbucks' eau des chaussettes when I was in university and drinking coffee from the cafeteria.
Reply

3-20-2008 @4:14PM jennifer said... Again, not to rush to Starbucks defense at every turn, I just find it funny how divisive a topic Starbucks can be. I'm a parent and a graphic designer and read blogs about both subjects and thought those were the most judgmental self-righteous people...forget about it...it is coffee drinkers! Why so angry about coffee...if you don't like their coffee don't go there...don't drink it! I went and got a $3.20 mocha this morning just in spite of this conversation and the Starbucks haters out there.
Reply

3-20-2008 @9:38PM Greg Sherwin said... First of all, as jennifer alluded to above, I dare you to find a "cup of coffee" at any Starbucks for $4. Not that I want to defend those weasels, but following the other sheep by passing along non-factual information isn't ethical either.

Secondly, anyone who calls it a "cuppa" and isn't from England should be shot on sight. Actually, I correct that: ANYONE who calls it a "cuppa" should be shot on sight, Brits included.
Reply

3-20-2008 @11:00PM Astin said... Jennifer,

It's largely the fact they pass themselves off as a gourmet coffee (and charge). They aren't. They make a terrible coffee. But people continue to pay a premium (be it $2 for a regular coffee, or $4 for something with cream and a flavoured powder or syrup) because they think they're getting a premium product.

What you're buying is an image and lifestyle, not a decent cup of joe. If you're happy with that, then so be it, it's your choice. Us haters out there, who are sick of corporate mediocrity being passed off as quality, have every right to shout our displeasure and dislike of these same places from the rooftops if we so choose.

Reply

3-21-2008 @11:43AM TrixieDelicious said... Greg, I'm glad you mentioned the lingo - I always thought "cuppa" was a tea term, but since it gets used to describe coffee so often, I assumed I was wrong.
Reply

3-24-2008 @1:15PM Gobo said... Astin, while you can hate on their drip coffee all you want -- yes, it's over-roasted, but a lot of people seem to like the dark flavor that's become the Starbucks signature -- it's not really fair to lump in their espresso beverages as "coffee with cream and flavor syrup". There's a huge difference between getting a cup of drip coffee and a hand-pulled espresso drink (latte, cappuccino, americano, etc), and you're going to pay $4 or more at any coffeeshop.

And if you think Starbucks simply can't produce anything of value, I have to disagree. I recently had a cup of brewed coffee from a Starbucks store testing a Clover machine, and it was one of the finest cups of coffee I've ever had.
Reply

4-26-2008 @12:49AM michelle said... Astin -- Not to defend Starbucks, but you mentioned there being a lack of diversified coffee offerings there.

"Why not actually give us a bean source and diversify beyond the cheapest possible piss-poor bean? Bring us some Sulawesi, some Yemeni, Harar, Papua New Guinea... actually use your power and reach to educate people about what GOOD coffee is, and share some of your wealth with the farmers who work hard to bring you it."

Well, Starbucks does in fact offer an Ethiopian Harar, an Arabian Mocha Sanani from Yemen, a Sulawesi coffee, and even a New Guinea pea berry blend. They also have fair trade and organic coffees available.


Starbucks is the only decent cup available around my office in Dallas, so I stop in--although it's not my first choice. I think both sides are valid in the love/hate battle about Starbucks. However, before you get so passionate about hating on them for something, do a little research.

- michelle
thelittledish.com

P.S. This $1 cup of coffee is such a ridiculous marketing scheme. As I understand it, there is already a cup of coffee that you can get for JUST over a dollar (1.10 something in Dallas). It's 8 ounces (a short) and available but just not listed on the menu.


Reply

3-24-2008 @7:41PM Gobo said... Just a quick add to Michelle's comment: in test-market stores, Starbucks is serving coffees such as a 100% Kona, not to mention their monthly Black Apron offerings. "Piss-poor"? Well, it's not Intelligensia, but they're offering just about the highest quality bean you can get your hands on.
Reply

3-26-2008 @5:24PM Astin said... Strange, the Starbucks I walk into (again, these are in Toronto, so maybe the US branches differ) serve almost exclusively blended coffees with ridiculous names. There are occasionally an actual sourced coffee or two, usually their single fair trade offering.

As for people perferring the dark roast, that's fine, but it's still not good coffee. That's like saying a $5 bottle of merlot is a good wine. Some people might like it, but it will undoubtedly lack the comlpexity and body of a high-quality offering. Dark-roasting kills most of the nuance and flavours of coffee, with a few exceptions. But hey, people like TV dinners, processed cheese, and other horrific things that barely pass as "food".

I have yet to see a Starbucks with a hand-pull espresso machine... again, maybe it's because I'm in Canada.

I still don't see anyone jumping to their defence when it comes to freshness of the beans either. You can get the greatest bean in the world, but if it was roasted 2 weeks earlier, ground 12 hours ago, and has been sitting in an urn for an hour, it's beyond stale.

Kona is also terribly overrated. It makes a mild coffee, but not a truly great one. Quality of bean from a region also has to be considered. Is Starbucks sourcing from the best selection of the best grower? Is it pure Kona or a Kona blend? These are questions that should be asked.

As for the Clover - it's a quality machine I'm sure, but check out the recent NY Times article on Starbucks purchase of it. One of the pre-eminent coffe-tasters in the world tried it out, and while he praised the Clover for improving the coffee, he still had very little in the way of kind words for the quality overall, due to Starbucks not being able to get the basics of good coffee right.

Reply

3-30-2008 @7:07PM rab said... Astin, you sound like a major tool.
Reply