Please do not generalize parents. While I too have been plagued by the wild children running free in public places (eateries of all kinds, bookstores, movies, etc.). My child has never and will never behave as you described. Now there is a part of me that is live and let live. If the child is not bothering me than I don't feel I have the right to say anything. If, however the child runs into my, or my families', chair than they are disturbing me. If they yell so loud that I cannot hear my wife or daughter they are disturbing me. Now the parents enter the same realm as those who would talk on their phone in a restaurant or movie, and I will inform them of their rudeness.

I'm sorry your dinner was not as peaceful as you would have liked but you were an enabler. If you allow those two women to tune out their children and sip their Margaritas you encourage their poor behavior. I am willing to bet that if you embarrass their moms the two children will be brought to task very quickly.

A quote from my favorite movie, Boondock Saints: "Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men. " Apples and Oranges? Maybe but I don't think so, saying nothing to someone else's rudeness only encourages them to repeat the action.

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I think there are a lot of parents, not you Paul, that just don't care these days. They have to watch the kids but they want to go drinking. So they take them to a restaurant with a bar and let the kids pester patrons while they sip on drink after drink. I will never allow my kids to be this way, but some parents don't care. Two words, ROLE MODEL.

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I don't hae children, but have younger siblings. One is of the age you describe, and my sister has one that 4. On occasions I've taken my younger brother to restaurants where he is extremely well behaved, and in some cases better behaved than adults I've dined with. My sister's son isn't as well behaved, but gets reprimanded when we're out. In some cases I'm embarrassed by it, and would rather not have made a scene, however, I honestly believe that discipline and teaching children how to behave is more important than public appearance.

This is not to say I hate children or believe in the ill treatment of children. What I'm saying is that it's imperative that the parents do something about bad behavior.

I've seen on way too numerous occasions where the scene you describe has played out. My theory is simply that the majority of parents that are involved in this situation simply do nothing out of apathy, and probably are there because they themselves do not grasp that certain situations are NOT MEANT FOR CHILDREN. Or Perhaps even worse: they don't care.

As for the first commentator, I must disagree. How can someone be an "enabler" by not speaking up when there's too many cases of fanatical parents defending their children's right to be present,(and often in places where children aren't welcome, nor are ideal situations for children to be present, such as bars, auction houses, and stores with a lot of very obviously breakable high-priced merchandise) If you don't get your own ass chewed out for mentioning that their child is ill behaved, then the second most likely course of events is that the parent won't do anything about the situation regardless.

"There's simply no point in talking to those who do not listen."

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I have seen this type of behavior more in Mexican restaurants than other types. I'm not generalizing Mexicans, Mexican-Americans or any other Hispanic peoples here, just noting that I don't see wild kids as much in other restaurants.

That said, my late brother's four kids were among the worst of all time. My brother and his wife would just sit like numb lumps of detritus while their kids terrorized everybody else. I was embarrassed to go out with them and eventually refused to be seen in public with the little heathens.

My two were always well behaved. They never once joined in the shenannigans.

Regardless of where one encounters this kind of bad behavior, it is wrong and the parents are at fault for not stopping it. There is no valid reason for not controlling one's children in public.

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To "The Postindustrialist" do not fret I have been "chewed out" by those fanatical parents already, once while holding my daughter's hand. It was not easy the first time I called out someone's bad behavior, and it certainly makes me very aware of my own bad habits. (Pot calling the kettle black and all.) We, as a society, can all sit back and tsk, tsk things we don't like or we can buck up and DO something about it.

While she may have been only venting Wendy had to know she was opening a can of worms with this post yet she posted it. Everyone that reads it will, hopefully, stop and inspect their actions to see if they are like the offenders. I, when the situation calls for it, like to take it a step further and tell the offender to their face. Does it take a little courage and/or chutzpah, you bet! Like our children and pets does that person now know exactly what they were doing wrong and can they see a consequence to their action, yep!
I will, sadly, agree that you run the risk of receiving the 'F-off' reaction to your constructive criticism. The hardest thing to do is not tell them to 'F-off' right back. My minister once advised me to act like they had just sneezed and say "Bless you." It is non-denominational as Muslims, Christians, Jews and Hindus al wish blessings on each other and it often defuses the situation because they will not know how to react to such an unusual response.

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I was an extremely well behaved kid (then came the teen years lol), no tantrums etc. But even so, I think parents always kind of assume that "they aren't that parent." just like i am assuming I wasn't doing things that annoyed others. It might not be overtly rude to let your kid learn about paying for things by having them pay at the ehckout line, but it certainly is annoying to the patrons behind you who have to wait an extra amount of time. People with kids are self-involved, and when you think you're keeping them well behaved, you very well may be oblivious to other behaviours. That being said, I am a 21 year old girl and if I ever tried to tell a parent off about their child I would undoubtedly be accosted worse than another parent.

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I think some parents just can't be bothered to teach their kids how to behave in public. Sad really. We never would have got away with that when I was growing up.

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Tell me you never did that whn you was a kid

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A point no one has covered is that children running amok in a restaurant are in mortal peril. Scalding hot dishes of food, scalding hot pots of coffee. Or wait staff falling on top of them. Do parents care so little that they'd risk their little ones so? Or do they not think it through?

The children currently in my life are so happy for us to take them out that they behave fairly well. Even if they complained, we'd make them keep their seat (but they don't).

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Hey, thanks for the "bless you" tip, Paul. That's perfect.

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If children are bothering you at a restaurant, you should speak to the manager and have them talk to the parents. It is not your job to police other parents, and while I have been known to do just that, you do open yourself to more bad behavior. Parents that let their children run around are likely to react poorly to your suggestion that they discipline their children. The manager of the restaurant is the one that should speak to the parents.

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My child is very ill behaved in restaurants. This is not because my husband and I don't believe in disciplining our child or because I "want to drink" and not watch my kid, but the child has sensory integration dysfunction and ADHD, so the noise, the bustle, everything is magnified for her. It's impossible for her to sit still. She freaks when there is unexpected, loud noise (like college students screaming at the big screen TV, or a family demanding "Happy Birthday" be sung repeatedly by the staff). What the heck am I doing in a restaurant with this child? My in-laws. They demand to go out to eat when we visit. I've started declining, saying, "we'll eat here, you go out" or COOKING for all their relatives when we're there so my child and I don't have to bother YOUR dinners. (Yeah, yeah, tell it to my husband to manage his parents) Why? Because I care. Because I know you paid for peace and quiet. Because I WAS YOU 7 years ago. Please don't judge me and my sistern. A lot of us are trying as hard as we can. I wish I could get on my high horse and say I have a perfect kid and a perfect life, but please, that's not real.

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I have to say that as a waitress at a "family restaurant" i too get annoyed when parents let their children misbehave. The hardest part from my side is that I'm worried they will run into me or another of our servers while we are carrying anything hot. I have had more than enough coffee and soup splashed on my hands to know that i wouldn't wish that on anyone let alone a kid. So equipped with my nicest BS smile and kindest words i have mentioned to the parents (and even some of the older kids who should understand or know better) that perhaps keeping their kids in the seats would be a good idea. Just a simple reminder that it is possible for us to spill. Sometimes talking to the kids gets more of the desired affect as they always seem concerned with getting their way and their own wellbeing. If nothing else some are just so shy when approached by someone outside their group that they sit shocked in their seats. I have never made these attempts seem threatening just reminders that our HOT chocolate is just that and they should be careful. Please don't jump all over me with posts that "maybe the servers should be more careful" or anything like that. When you are bringing a tray with six plates worth of dinners it is insanely difficult to see that short 3 foot tall body barreling across the floor. As far as talking to a manager, that is an iffy prospect. As often as not the managers are just as worried about getting told off or offending the customer and not getting repeat business.

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As a parent of a 16-month old, I'll admit that I pay more attention to my son than I pay to other patrons of any establishment we visit. For the people who don't have children, you won't understand this: to me, the most important thing on the planet is my child. I'm certainly not saying that the most important thing to you on the planet is my child. If you don't like the way I'm parenting my child, I don't care. If your margarita doesn't taste as good because my son is talking loudly because he's happy, I don't care.

BTW - if you're going to get annoyed about my kid's behavior, I guess that gives me the right to complain about you talking loudly amongst yourselves, or on your cellphone, or whatever. Everyone does rude things from time to time. My excuse is that I'm responsible for an entire other person who may not be able to control himself like an adult. What's your excuse?

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I've essentially given up on anyplace popular with families that doesn't have a bar with menu service - in our state, they're not kidding about 21 and under in the lounge - not even infants. A legislated child-free/smoke-free zone. It's heaven.

If I wanted kids, I'm perfectly aware of how to spawn 'em, but I choose to live differently.

So.

If you're buying my dinner (say, inviting me out, or inviting me over to your place) and you've got ill-behaved kids, I'm game. Bring on the screaming.

The table turns when I'm buying. I'm opting to dine out to have a relaxed, low-stress evening with my husband. We like to talk about . . . adult topics. . .over dinner. Things like the alternative minimum tax, healthcare finance, continental drift. Joyous vocalizations at toddler pitch just don't make the mood for us.

I acted up in a restaurant.

Once.

I was fussy because dinner was taking a remarkably long time, the breadbasket was empty, I didn't have any water left, and I was trapped in the corner of a u-shaped booth.

The usual distractions didn't work.

I *may* have taken a spoon and banged it on the table, and announced, loudly, that I wanted dinner NOW.

Moments later, hands came down from the sky.

I was removed from the booth and the restaurant in one fell swoop. I was bundled into the car, in stunned silence, taken home, and put to bed without dinner.

I have been astonishingly well-behaved in restaurants ever since. The harm in a missed dinner is nonexistent except for kids with insulin-dependent diabetes. It requires no parenting skill other than the decision that your kids *will* behave in public, even if it means you miss dinner, too.

As for this quote:


My excuse is that I'm responsible for an entire other person who may not be able to control himself like an adult.


How about not bringing people who can't act like adults to places where people are expected to act like adults? What gives your sanctimonious ass the right to dictate the conditions I'll enjoy my margarita in?

Honestly.

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My grandkids were like that when thay were with ther mom. I started them out at my house. table cloth pretty dishes cloth napkins. candles the works. Thanks to the thrift shops. We worked on being nice, eating right you know. It worked. Funny the worst of the bunch was the one who wanted the candles, and appetizers. Kids you just have to love them.

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Wow, Children running around intruding on another's meal is acceptable? If my children had even tried to run around,scream or any other obnoxious behavior; they would have been taken home and sent to thier room with no dinner and it would be a long time before they would be invited out again. Some forms of behavior are not acceptable. They have to learn to control themselves. Shame on the parents for not teaching them manners.

I've asked to be moved because of obnoxious kids. I've even left the restaurants when there was no other table available. Told the waitress to cancel my order, told the manager I was not able to tolerate interuptions and walked out.

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Please don't lump all parents into this category. I NEVER misbehaved in restaurants as a child as my parents wouldn't have stood for it. My child behaves himself at restaurants as well. I can tell if my child is in a bad mood or isn't up for sitting down at a restaurant, and if that is the case... we don't go to the restaurant because. I have respect for other diners and their right to enjoy their meal.

Before I had a child I was one of those that was irritated by misbehaving children. I know what it's like to have heartburn after rushing your dinner just to escape screaming kids. Heck I'm still irritated by misbehaving kids in public as a parent, probably even more so now because I know it doesn't take much to control your child. If my child can behave himself and I can control my child, I expect others to do the same or just not eat at restaurants.

My bottom line, it comes down to respecting other people and their rights to enjoy a good meal that they are paying good money for. Please don't generalize all parents as not caring.

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So, my question to the parents here who're getting all defensive about their kids:

Let's say I'm sitting next to you in a restaurant, trying to have a conversation/date/meal, and your kids happen to be going nuts. You're also having a conversation and haven't noticed this yet.

How would YOU prefer I handle this, as a parent? Would you prefer I ask you to control your kids, or would you prefer I yell at your kids for you? Or would you prefer that I ask the manager to tell you to shut your kids up?

Just wondering.

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@Gobo
My daughter isn't perfect so it may arise that she is misbehaving and I don't notice it. Please tell me about it, or tell the manager, whatever you are most comfortable with. If you approach me I can handle and react to the criticism. If you approach my daughter (or yell at her) I will get VERY defensive VERY quick. I think this holds true for most parents.

Most importantly of all, when you call someone on their bad manners (loud child, cell phone or whatever) the more calm and politeness you put into your delivery the less likely they are to get defensive.

Yell at my child I yell at you, it's natural. (If you don't believe me approach a bear cub near its mom!) Tell me to "shut up" and I'll get defensive. Ask me politely to calm my child down and I'll feel embarrassed but do it. (That's me others may tell you to F-off)

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