It strikes me as somewhat telling of our contemporary society that none of the points in the article mention consideration for other diners, even in passing.

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I disagree with #3 a little bit -- it's worthwhile to push the edge of the envelope now and again, especially if you've all grown bored with the familiar choices. You don't have to go overboard, but it's worth making a list of places you haven't tried and doing some investigating to see how kid-friendly they are. We have expanded our list of choices quite a bit by trying someplace new now and again.

#5 is CRITICAL. We learned early on that if our kid's meal came out first, she was done eating before we'd even get our food, and would be antsy the whole time we were trying to eat. INSIST that all the dishes come at the same time (or as close as possible).

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Hopefully the kids will enjoy a nice bit of seafood. Also check out this article for even further tips: http://www.tastingmenu.com/archive/2005/11-november/20051117.htm.

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My rule, when dining out with my daughter, was always:

Don't be hypocritical - If you are ordering a "fancy drink", then by all means let them have the Shirley Temple. Skipping the milk one night really won't hurt them.

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I agree with chaosotter. I'm growing more and more sick of living in a society that so placates to children that it ignores the need for grown-up atmospheres. The problem in almost all of these cases, I believe, are the parents, not the children. If I am going out to a "fancy" restaurant for a nice, relaxing dinner, the last thing I want is a screaming child right by my ear. I understand parents need to get out too but save a little extra and hire that babysitter. Parents need to realize that the rest of the world isn't as enamored with their little ones as they are and plan accordingly.

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THOSE OF US WHO DO NOT HAVE CHILDREN WOULD LIKE YOU TO CONSIDER "DINING" AT A "KID FRIENDLY" PLACE EG:MCDONALDS, CHUCKY CHEESE ETC. AND LET THOSE OF US WHO DO NOT HAVE CHILDREN AT LEAST HAVE A FEW PLACES WHERE WE DON'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH YOUR KIDS, SO WE CAN ENJOY THE DINNER WE ARE PAYING $18-UP FOR. AND IF WE WON'T COMPLAIN ABOUT THEM WHEN WE GO TO YOUR "KID FRIENDLY" PLACES

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Having a Shirley Temple was one of the most exciting parts of dining out with my parents! I really looked forward to that special treat.

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***Rant Warning***

Yeah, #8 should read:

8. Don't let your children hurt the dining experience of other diners.

Other diners deserve to not have their dinners interrupted, overly, by loud and/or obnoxious children. Not all children are loud and obnoxious but when they are their parents need to take responsibility for their children's actions and deal with them appropriately. Sometimes this means a stern look, an authoritative word, sometimes a slight spanking in the bathroom (but this would probably leave the child in such a state as to make further attempts at dining impossible), or the removal of the child (and probably the parents and other children) from the restaurant. I know the last option sounds terrible but that is the responsibility that one accepts when one has children.

When I worked as a bartender at a country club I held one woman above all others. She and her husband had four children. Two girls, one younger son (in a wheelchair), and a toddler. The older children had long since learned their manners, however the toddler had a little ways to go.

During the school year she would come in for lunch with her small son and I would give him shirley temples with xtra xtra cherries. By and large he was a good little guy. Every once in a while he would get out of hand. First she would try to calm him. If that did not work she would give the waiter, or maitre'd, her billing info and walk out. Sometimes at the beginning of lunch and sometimes halfway through. I am sure that this was hugely inconvenient for her but that is why I respected her so much.

There is a certain way to act in public in general and in a restaurant in particular and as a human in our society you must learn these things. She was never an abusive mother, on the contrary, she wanted them to have the best "home teaching" that she could provide.

It seems that in our society we have moved away from parental responsibility and it is of great concern.

Like my mom used to say, "I'm not your buddy, I'm not your pal, I'm your mother. I may not like what you do always but I will always love you."

Words to live by.

Richard

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Richard,

I couldn't have said it better myself. Thank you!!

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"Don't let the server bring kids' dishes out first - eat altogether"

I'm guessing that some people like this because they bring their children in all antsy to start out with, but I can't stand when they do this. I'm now in the position of having a 10 year old and a 5 month old so I haven't had to deal with this one in a while, but I couldn't stand when they did this. The second your 4-5 year old (or there-abouts) is done eating, they're ready to go, and if their food came first, it could happen before you even start.

I would add to this, if you are going to take your children to a restaurant, do it frequently and not a once-a-year thing. Many trips to a diner or burger joint where you enforce good etiquette will pay off when you want to eat at a fancy place and have the best behaved children in the place.

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My parents always tried to take my brother and myself out somewhere nice at least once a month to 'expose us to elegance', as they put it. the one dining experience i remember the most is from that time is when they took us to a VERY upscale mediterranean restaurant. i had just turned 9, my brother a little over eleven. at the end of the night, the older gentleman who was our server refused the tip my parents added on to the bill. he said that the behaviour of myself and my brother was enough to make his night, and that, normally, he would refuse to take any table with children of any age due to their inability to behave and the utter lack of restraint the parents had in dealing with the little demons. that has always been one of my proudest moments from my childhood. my parents had always instilled in us a need to respect the quality of the atmosphere and the rights (especially!) of the other diners and those who are serving you. Let this be a lesson to parents out there-you're kids are not the only one's at the restaurant. Whether the bill will by only $20, or over $100, teach your children to act properly in public or don't take them out.

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And if you have to scold your child, FOR GOD'S SAKE (and your kids) TAKE THEM OUTSIDE FIRST!!!

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I disagree with chaosotter. Most of these tips ARE actually about consideration of others. These are tips -- besides "don't eat out with your kids" -- that are designed to keep your kids happy, quiet, and considerate.

They're far from complete, though. One of them should definitely be "Be prepared to walk out at any time." Give your credit card to the waiter beforehand and let the kids know that bad behavior means everybody's going home. And mean it.

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We have taken our children to all sorts of restaurants since they were very small (not babies, but less than 2). When they were small, I made sure we had plenty of things with us to keep them happily entertained (quietly). As they grew up, we would remind them as we entered the restaurant that we expected them to be on their best behavior. We've never suffered a meltdown (but if our kids were having a bad day, we'd stay home--we'd circumvent a meltdown that way). We've never allowed the kids to leave the table until we were all ready to leave (except for bathroom breaks which we would make them do before we left home--but there are always emergencies).

I agree with the Shirley Temples. Although my daughter preferred the virgin margarita. My son, up until very recently, always asked for milk. (Once in a movie theater he wanted milk with his popcorn!). It is a special occasion--they should get something special, especially if they are being good.

If the kids wanted a full meal rather than the crap that is usually on the kids meal, they were allowed to order it. We'd take home a doggie bag if necessary (sometimes they would split a larger meal).

Only once did their dinner get served before ours. What a mess that was! My husband and I ended up eating our meal too fast in order to get out of the restaurant.

I have to add that once, when my daughter was about a year and a half (or even less) we went to a nice seafood restaurant with my parents. One of us ordered steak and lobster and the steak came covered in button mushrooms. My daughter just loved those!! (We didn't order a meal for her due to her age.) As we left, the gentleman that was sitting next to us stopped us and congratulated us on how well she behaved.

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What Richard said.

And #9: If you're allowed to choose your own seat in a mostly empty restaurant, please don't grab the booth behind a childless diner or couple and then get upset when they don't like having your child kick their seats and squeal.

It's one thing to expect fellow diners to be easy-going at a casual restaurant that's crowded. It's another to pass up perfectly nice booths with some space around them in order to inflict your children on strangers who would have brought our own if we'd wanted them. Which leads to...

Rule 10: Please teach your child basic manners at home, so that what you do at a restaurant is quiet reminders, not an extended negotiation over whether Johnny wants his carrots, why it's good to eat carrots, what he might like better than carrots, why he should take a sip of juice right now, why napkins are good to use, why the napkin's feelings are hurt by not being used, etc., etc., etc., all in tones that can be overheard for six tables in each direction.

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Hahaha - the napkin's feelings were hurt.

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I agree with everything everybody else said and my addition is
#10
Do not assume, however well you tip (or, as is usually the case, not!)that your server is a free baby sitter. I have deliberately chosen a career that does not include dealing with children on a daily basis for a reason.

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Please, Big R, don't make my kids eat at fat-laden craphouses like McDonalds - let kids eat real food in real restaurants but behave properly.

On the point about bringing out the kids food first - a bigger sin is to allow the waiter to bring out the adult food first!

And the point about kids menus: Why can't restaurants offer smaller versions of 'adult' meals to kids rather than the usual chicken-nugget-sausage-fries thing??

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How are children ever supposed to learn how to go on in grownup society if we never ask them to try something new?

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Who the f*** is Fodor and why is he telling me how to raise my kids?!?

Just kidding, I don't have kids. And I'm leaning with others who say that not allowing your children to disrupt/ruin other peoples' dining experience should be on that list. In fact, I say it should be #1.

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