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I have always wondered why people have problems saying the drink names at Starbucks. I'm not just speaking
about the sizes, Tall, Grande and Venti, either. I'm talking about words like "latte." I notice men actually
mispronounce the words on purpose. They will plaster a big grin on their face and, sarcastically, say something like
"I'll have a 'grand kap-po-see-no.'" I kid you not - and when you come into a Starbucks every single
morning, you will learn, at some point, the proper pronunciation of the names. How hard is it to
say 'grahn-day,' really.
I generally chalked it up to some sort of testosterone-based insecurity because women almost never do this; the fear of saying a word incorrectly by chance was so great that these men preferred to grossly mispronounce the words on purpose. The question is: why be insecure?
Is it because they feel the words are silly? If that is the case, let me take this opportunity to state, for the record, that because Starbucks employees and patrons have heard the words so much, they do not consider them to be silly. They also do not think any less of you when you accidentally mispronounce something. They do, however, get annoyed when you purposely do it.
Except for the few who do it, repeatedly to annoy the Starbucks employees and need to get over themselves, these are the same people who will actually be "afraid" to go into an ethnic restaurant for fear of mispronouncing "filet mignon." They are members of the Dunkin Donuts tribe who are "bewildered" by seeing couches in a coffee shop. I just find it strange that they are the same group of people who will say "I'll have a McGriddle and a large McFlurry" with a straight face.
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4-11-2006 @11:42AM Dmnkly said... While I agree that it's absurd that people would do this with simple, real drink names, I completely understand when it comes to the sizes. Cappuccino is a real and traditional name that uniquely identifies a certain drink (not the drink that Starbucks makes, but that's another subject)... but the tall, grande, venti naming convention is totally gratuitous and artificially pretentious. No, it isn't hard to say grahn-day, but the annoying and cutesy size renaming is a dumb, dumb, dumb practice that I don't care to support. And thanks to Starbucks, it seems to be spreading. At Cold Stone Creamery, you're supposed to now order a "gotta have it" of cake batter ice cream? You insist this is a testosterone issue, Nicole, but I think it's simply a matter of where you draw the line. You're telling me you won't flinch when the day comes that some establishment forces you to jump through hoops and ask for a "Schnookums' Super Ultra Gulpy McGulper" when all you want is a large soda?
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4-11-2006 @11:51AM fred jackson said... Well you know Italian is a very lyrical, beautiful language. English is a dissipated hodgepodge of Latin and Latin-based languages, Greek and Germanic. Check the etymology of your favorite words in any dictionary if you have problems with that. This would suggest the Anglos were without any developed language system until they were invaded by tribes that possessed these languages and much more. Maybe the arrogant English-speaker would like to forget these humble beginnings.
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4-11-2006 @12:03PM eric said... insecurity? hmmm....personally, i've never deliberately, or unconsciously, mispronounced the words - i simply refuse to say them, for the same reasons that i refuse to use any of the horrible and ridiculous faux-exotic, or 'quirky', product names (mostly sizes, i admit - a latte is a latte, for instance) that certain horrible and ridiculous corporations come up with. and i'm not trying to make some sort of statement - i enjoy Starbucks now and then - i guess i just resent the fact that if a company like Starbucks wanted to name one of their beverages a 'poopy-bop tippy-clip', then i'd be expected to say it, just because they put it on their menu.
can't i just say 'medium' instead of 'grande'? 'large' instead of 'biggie' (not that i eat at Wendy's - that word being at least part of the reason)?
i'm not sure it has anything to do with gender - all of my wonderful female friends (including two who have been employed by Starbucks) also find saying words like 'grande' absolutely humiliating. because it's not like Starbucks is a lovely, family-run organization, where foreign words come into play in a pure and authentic fashion - that would change everything. Starbucks is neither pure nor authentic - they're just a big ol' company slingin' coffee to mostly white folks with enough money to bypass cheap coffee.
the mispronunciation you're referring to just sounds like very stupid, very unfunny men thinking they're being brilliant and hilarious. which actually is more of a male trait, come to think of it.
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4-11-2006 @12:33PM Hawk said... I remember waiting in line at the dorm cafeteria, and some guy in front of me with a baseball cap was ordering a gyro.
"Hah, Ah'd like one of them JY-ROWS."
This person actually had a texas accent, but he also was grinning like an idiot when he said the name.
Granted, it's a bit hard for an English speaker to pronounce 'gyro' correctly (I don't think I manage it very well so I just say 'eero'), but still.
Come to think of it, I've never seen a girl do the same thing. It's usually like, "Uhm, I'd like a.... you know...that thing.." *talks in a squeaky voice and points*. Mind you, this is a college town. Huge numbers of people align themselves with really weirdo stereotypes in an effort to distance themselves from their parents.
People get the names of everything wrong. I work in phone support among other things, and no one ever gets our company name correct, gets our software name correct, or has any idea what kind of PDA they own even if they're staring right at it make and model on the back.
I used to own a toyota Previa. Is it a 'Preh-vee-uh' or a 'pree-vee-uh'? I have a Scion now. Is it 'sy-on' or 'sky-on'? (hint: unlike the Previa confusion, it is *NOT* okay to say Sky-on)
Arrrgh.
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4-11-2006 @1:13PM Finished.Law.School said... Insecurity and illiteracy are two distinctly different things. If someone does not know the correct pronounciation of a word printed in front of them it is likely due to stupidity, a.k.a. illiteracy.
Insecurity also has nothing to do with asking for a small or medium instead of a tall or otherwise. There is no logical connection.
Your theory attempting to place the blame on insecurity is weak and your argument supporting it goes absolutely nowhere.
Although I would not say this if you are in a Starbucks in some backwater, redneck, white trash town...
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4-11-2006 @1:15PM Steven Andrew Miller said... I just find it strange that they are the same group of people who will say "I'll have a McGriddle and a large McFlurry" with a straight face.
Yes, because if you find Starbucks to be pretentious then you must eat at McDonalds.
I read the whole article in the Saturday WSJ about DD vs. SB, and I find your summary of it in this last two posts to be quite snobbish.
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4-11-2006 @1:17PM Nicole Weston said... When it's professional, upper-middle class men, it's insecurity or stupidity. Not illiteracy.
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4-11-2006 @1:18PM mtt said... Its not that they are hard to say, its that these companies come up with goofy Corporate Names for everything. I can live with an actual menu having an odd name (like some sandwich places naming their fancy sandwiches, or Starbucks calling their drink a Machiatto when it isn't), but when they rename common items and adjectives, I just don't like using them.
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4-11-2006 @2:05PM Robyn said... I don't think authentic Italian has anything to do with it. I think it's that they don't want to sound hoity-toity. This totally makes sense with gender too as "proper" English (and other speech) is seen as female (writing teacher) territory.
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4-11-2006 @2:55PM Kelley Ritchey said... I think Starbucks has to justify $3 for a coffee- albeit a strong, quality coffee. So you've got to provide the product with some cachet. The name game provides that.
I don't have a problem with making fun of the name. They provide a name that can be made fun of quite readily after all.
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4-11-2006 @2:59PM Coffee Snob said... Schultz eventually differentiated Starbucks from other American coffeehouses by modeling it on his Italian experience, with certain modifications to suit American tastes. These include chairs for loitering, jazz overhead instead of opera, and an Italian-sounding nonsense language (such as "frappuccino" and "tazo tea") that one ex-Starbucks exec freely admits was concocted in a boardroom. This just adds another stage in the international epic of coffee drinking: Starbucks customers, whether in Zurich or Beirut, are drinking an American version of an Italian evolution of a beverage invented by Arabs brewed from a bean discovered by Africans.
From http://www.reason.com/0301/cr.jk.tempest.shtml
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4-11-2006 @9:05PM karsh said... Easy way to solve the quandry of Buckspeak: Go to Dunkin' Donuts!
Thank you...thank you...I'll be here all night.
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4-11-2006 @9:09PM Donnie Macchiato said... Every day I am amused by the mispronunciations of Starbucks whether it be a grandee laddee, a carmel machataato, or a yava cheep frappukkeeno...actually the icing on the cake is when someone orders a Tai Chi Latte-it happens several times a day and it never gets old.
We also come up with our own names for drinks such as the proverbial Crapuccino (in reference to frappuccino) and the perennial favorite a "short CAC" the abbreviation for Caramel apple cider- which provides innumerable opportunities at wordplay such as "would you like some caramel on your short CACK?"
My day would be pretty dull and boring if these customers were literate enough to pronunciate and read the words the way they were designed to be read. So please, don't correct someone when the order a Vent-ai Kai Laddee. If they don't catch their mistake when the Barista calls it back out, then they deserve to remain in their bliss filled bubble of ignorance.
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4-11-2006 @10:44PM random said... Nicole, I think you are mistaken that this mispronunciation has anything to do with insecurity or stupidity. If the gentlemen you witnessed are anything like the purposeful misprouncers I know, they are simply making fun of Starbuck's ridiculous Ital-English drink names.
What you find annoying, these mispronouncers find funny. They do it as much to see the look on the server's face as anything else. No, it's not my sort of joke either, but hey, it takes all types.
So you see, it isn't at all about their insecurity, it's just that you don't appreciate their sense of humor. Although I can certainly see how their little jokes could get old fast, it's certainly shouldn't be raising anyone's blood pressure.
On the "crying baby" scale of annoying things one finds in a Starbuck's, mispronouncers come in at the very bottom end of things.
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4-12-2006 @12:28AM Nicole Weston said... Actually, this is a phemonemon I observed when I worked at a coffee shop that was NOT a Starbucks. I chose to make an example out of Starbucks, where I regularly observe the phenomenon as a customer and hear from my barista friends, because it is more relatable.
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